I’ve been playing poker only a short time and have read a few books. I’m the guy at the table you love to play because I’m meddling along losing my money. But I’m learning. My question: How do you calculate outs in hold’em? I read, you have 15 outs with pot odds of 8-1 etc etc. 8-1 meaning the pot is 8 times your bet. How do you calculate outs since you don’t know what the opponents have folded? For instance, if any diamond would help you, and you say you have 8 outs, how do you know the other players haven’t folded 6 of them and so there are only 2? Anyone who could give me a crash course on this pot odds to outs thing would be great. Also, any suggested reading would be good. Answer 1: I’m new to poker as well, but from what I’ve learned, you don’t worry about what your opponents have folded, basically, after the flop, there are 47 cards you haven’t seen, if 8 cards can help you, you’re at 39 to 8 which is just about 5 to 1 (i know this isn’t exactly correct, but its close enough to do quickly in your head, it actually reduces to 4.875 to 1,but 5 to 1 is good enough in my book) those cards that have been folded are just thought of as part of the deck, because the odds are still the same. For every 5 cards that don’t help you, there is 1 that does. So let’s just say you DID want to consider what your opponents had. with the odds we figured here, say 6 people folded, that’s 12 cards gone, but the odds are still the same, including what they held, out of those 12 cards gone, 2 would have been what you needed, so the odds within the deck are still the same and the odds you calculate for you to draw what you need included ALL unseen cards, even the ones in your opponents hands. I hope this makes sense, and surely someone will put me in my place if any of my thinking is incorrect here. Answer 2: Only include the cards you know about in your calculations. This might include any cards that end up face up in the muck, flashed as they are folded, flashed by the dealer, or intentionally displayed by your opponents together with the ones on the flop and ones in your hand. If you have AsKs and the flop is QsJc2s then you have 4 tens for the Broadway and 13-4=9 spades for the flush (overlapping one of the tens). That’s 12 outs to strong ands. Additionally any of 3 aces or 3 kings will gives you strong hands although you have to be concerned they could make somebody else a straight. Answer 3: You don’t know if your opponents are holding your outs, “theoretically”, those 8 outs you have could be in the dealer’s hand or in player’s hands. Say you have three Aces. The dealer holds the other 49 cards. Your odds of getting the forth Ace if the dealer deals one card is 1/49. Say the dealer deals out 6 cards to each of 8 players. That leaves the dealer with one card. Your odds are still 1/49 that that one card is an Ace…
I was playing a little dealers choice this evening with not just one but three, I repeat three, lesson givers sitting at the table. Lesson givers are those people who feel they play better than everyone else at the table and have to explain how to play every hand correctly. The worst is when they have to yell at everyone who bets nut low. What is the best way to handle these people, they are driving me INSANE.
Answer 1:
First you go out a buy a 2 by 4 about 3 feet long…. then…. you hit them on the right side of the head as hard as you can… If you have their attention then you tells them to shut up if you don’t have their attention you hit them on the left side of the head…. repeat as needed.
Answer 2:
Sit back quietly and take their money. Seriously, it’s been my experience that a lot of lesson givers are also people who easily tilt. Trap them once or twice with a AA or KK in Hold’em, or put a bit of a beat on them, like making a flush on the river in 7-stud, and they’ll take it personally. Then you can take
their money while they are proving to you that they can beat you with inferior holdings. Although lesson givers are annoying I lot of times I find them good for the game.
Answer 3:
In dealing with them, I general like to hear what they have to say. And then I always act like I am actually trying to learn from their sage advice – without divulging my thought process. In reality what I am doing is learning something of how they play the hands. Lesson-givers aren’t always giving you the right advice. What they are giving you is insight into how they would play the hand – which you can use later against them. I had a situation come up last night in a lose 6-12 game where I had an over pair to a flop that contained two spades. Now with 6 or 7 callers pre-flop, I fear the flush draws. I bet and the turn card came with another spade. I backed off, and the river card came a 4th spade. I lost the hand, although the guy only held one spade. A wild one to my immediate left starts ranting and raving telling me I made a big mistake by not aggressively hammering it the whole way. The real mistake I made was not folding it on the turn. I just acted like he was right and I was dead wrong and learned a little about him. Then I used this against him a little later when the roles were reversed and I had the flush draw, made it on the turn, and let him do all the betting with his top pair. So keep in mind, that unless you truly respect the lesson-giver (as I do with my friend SLAM), don’t necessarily assume that it is the proper book wisdom.